:-( ( by Natalia )

OK and guess what? now I have mods on my back for posting about a safe corner
for us, that they hope its not getting people on to another forum, blah blah,
not allowed blah blah. I said that its not another forum and asked to delete
that post just to be on the safe side but I am just worried if they do it nobody
else will know ... maybe I will just PM people? I dont want to harass anyone
though:-( sigh

And also that post of Megs...where was she with her remarks about keeping the
thread on topic for the last 5 pages when it was very much needed? but no, she
walks in after 4 posts about ice cream when the gals try to calm it down
themselves and then she has a problem with off topic...aaaaargh can I but
patience in bulk somewhere, because I really need it !


rant over:-)

I'm so sorry to hear about you getting slapped for your post, Nat. I think
the thread is going to be shut down soon, which is probably what the hating
mothers wanted.

I hope you aren't banned from tPF.

I just posted about that message from Megs about the premature infants. WTF?
Seriously! There are hundreds of threads for that kind of topic. Grrrr.

Hugs to all my child-hating serial-killer sisters,

Doreen

Thanks my child-hating serial-killer soul mate ! :-)


I think it is ok now, but I just know that sooner or later this thread will get
closed down like it happened with the fist part of it and then temporarily the
second part.

And did you notice how Megs said that she wants a family in the future so she is
biased.

Hello, you dont need a child to have a family !!!!! aaaaaargh


Nat

Nat I'm so sorry things turned out like that. I think it was something expected
that the tpf members that were constantly attacked in the thread would sooner or
later try to find a safer place to express.

BTW I'm lily25 in TPF and my latest post on the NKOHK thread was this
"I feel mad at society sometimes because women that have children or expecting
children are perceived as "blessed"... Does that mean the rest of women that
either can't or don't want to have kids are damned? Why are children a measure
and criterion of how important, "blessed", happy, and successful a woman is?

Do we still live in the middle ages? Like it's not hard enough that women all
over the world are facing discrimination of all kinds, don't REALLY have the
same opportunities as men, there is discrimination among women too? "

Nat, I highly suggest you DON'T send out pms because admins and some mods can
read those even if you delete them later on. I was admin for years and it was
something we did often , monitoring the pms of ppl we thought were about to
cause problems.



Lily25

Hi it's good to see you here!

I remember your thread about women being "blessed" when they have children.

I almost posted that when I was in London last, I walked around an old
cemetery where most of the graves were from the 1700's. There was not a
single headstone for a woman where she lived above age 35! So many died in
childbirth or complications from childbirth. Makes me wonder who was
"blessed".

I agree about sending PMs. Instead we can look for members in other forums
if we decide we want them.

All the best,
Doreen

I also agree about not sending pms about this group. You know they'll be
watching.

I honestly think the main crux here is that the women with kids can't rest until
everyone is as miserable as they are. They once were 'free', could go where they
wanted, when they wanted, spend money on themselves w/out feeling like they were
taking money from the future genius' college fund, etc. Now they can't so they
feel everyone should suffer. It used to be like that w/my married friends before
I got married. I really didn't have any desire to marry either, but you can only
imagine how much heat I took about that!


Grace123

Couldn't agree more.
All the ppl with kids I know insist on trying to convince us to have kids as
well, and it's always evident that they feel that when we have kids and we
suffer all together then their suffering may seem less painful. They are always
tired from picking their kids up and dropping them somewhere and always in an
irritated mood. And keep on saying to me "you'll see you'll have kids and
you''ll see...".
Oh I see very clearly right now, thankyouverymuch.. I don't need to make your
mistakes as well, so you'll feel better about your miserable mood.

Marrying was another deal entirely, everyone was saying it was too soon for me,
and I should wait bla bla bla, it was the best thing that ever happened to me.

Lily25

spot on!

And dont even get me started on not getting married part...I never wanted to get
married and I only caved in because I wanted to let my SO know how special and
different from my previous ( quite many hmmhmm ) relationships/men he is ( apart
from his child issue we really make a great team together).

When will people understand that life can be lived in many different ways and
not EVERYONE has to choose exactly the same one?

Nat

Thank you for giving me heads up about PMs, I talked to Swanky and I said we
basically exchange email addresses and then emails and this obviously is not
forbidden, so even if I PM someone about it, it should be fine;-) I dont feel
like doing it now, but if the thread gets closed I will definitely do so!

What drives me mad the most, is the constant need to criticize and "know better"
and its sad that it so often happens between a woman and another woman. Except
for one, older traditional man I have never ever heard a guy criticizing my
decision, that says volumes. Why do we do it to our own kind, if I can put it
this way?


Nat

Sheesh. This has been one of the more appalling cases of out-of-bounds
moderation that I have seen on tpf. I DON'T WANT to know any more about preemie
care on on a childfree thread. But it's so typical, the Breeder agenda is
always insidiously being pushed on us.

I do not think you were harassing anyone. If we can't voice our opinions openly
without our thread being hijacked, what other options do we have?

I was surprised there wasn't another outburst from the mods after my stats on
child abuse...but I guess nobody can argue with facts.

-Sharona

Loved the stats post, it was spot on. Somehow miss big mouth didnt come back to
comment on cold facts, did she? ( uugh, I miss smilies here )

Having a problem with us not liking strangers´ brats but ignoring violence in
immediate family, typical narrow minded hater attitude.


Nat

So the drama back on the original tpf thread continues, and here's how I see it:

If one of us went over to the TTC (Trying To Conceive) thread and posted
something like this: "Ohhh, I TOTALLY understand how you feel, but, you know,
you don't understand how great life is when you don't have kids. You don't
understand how selfish it is to to spend all that money on yourself to try to
get pregnant. You should think about adopting a child who needs parents. You
don't understand that there are too many humans destroying this planet..."

We would be sofa king banned within seconds of hitting the 'Submit' button.


Sharona

That thread is just turning into a trainwreck. I can't help but feel like
people just really want to see it closed. I'm so confused on how the whole
staying on topic and being respectful rules are enforced. I completely agree
that if someone went into the TTC thread and posted about how great life is
without children that they would be banned.



lmkhlh

I especially found Megs and Vlad's comments distressing..I'd rather they just
close the thread than display such blatant contempt for a side of life that they
obviously dislike. I know its their forum and they can choose the rules, but if
you make rules, then I think everyone, including them, should abide by them. I
don't see how under any possible circumstances calling most of we posters on
that thread psychopaths isn't disrespectful, but I guess to them, its perfectly
ok.

Grace123

I was really positive this morning about the thread maybe turning around and
coming back onto topic ans not getting hi-jacked...and I just logged on and saw
that a bunch of shiz has gone down again!

I don't even know what to post anymore...I feel like I'm hitting my head against
a wall at this point.


queennadine

I didn't see those posts, but that is flat out wrong. I think I'm going to
take a long break from tPF. It's not like I need that kind of drama fest, I
have too much drama in real life right now anyway.

Doreen

I'm going to read the thread in a sec. Boy, I'm in a hurry too, I have to go to
school in 20 minutes!

Megs and Vlad only support the baby crazed attackers with their nonexistent
moderation. It is obvious that they cannot do the right job on the particular
thread.
HUH! I hate that sneaky comment about how she wants a family, so the rest
without children are family-less??? I have gazilions of relatives, I surely
don't need more.

As for going to the TTC and posting something provocative, yes it does sound
deliciously naughtyt but I wouldn't do that because it's their choice what they
do with their lives and what they decide, like it's my choice to have a dog,
travel in style, and buy expensive shoes instead of having kids.

I 'm not a martyr trying to prove how righteous I am through having kids. All I
see from the ppl with kids is how "noble" and right it is having kids, even if
they suffer. The martyr syndrome, and the implied masochism is not of my liking.

I'm sick and tired of the NKOHK thread on TPF and I will never post there again.
I've had enough of twinkle.tink, and the baby avatar, or all the other mommies
lurking in the thread. And what's up with all this sharing they need to do about
their feelings and their babies???
There a freaking HUGE forum for sharing baby stuff, haven't they noticed? No one
asked about how blessed they feel, or how hard it is traveling with their
babies. We know all this stuff already because all of them make sure they fill
you in everyday in all the little details of life with children. This is how we
know we don't need any kids in OUR lives.


And Nat! I know you will see the msgs in 2 hours, but pls let us know if there
is a way to move the discussion in a forum. I think in a few days it is going to
be hard to follow the discussion here. Desperate times , desperate measures, I
know... x o x o

Good morning everyone, I have to go , see you in a few hours!

Lily25

Hey Nat (and everyone!)

I found a list of free forum providers here:
http://www.freecenter.com/forums.html

Let me know if you want help looking into them. They look pretty easy to set
up and maintain.

Doreen

I'm quite enjoying my day without tpf. I was addicted to it...far too wrapped up in those threads. I'll probably save a ton of money by staying here instead.


I even like our smilies better!

^ That's a good point! I needed some time off the other forum as well.

I can see the new thread there is getting some posts....but the lack of presence of many is OBVIOUS

Natalia wrote:I can see the new thread there is getting some posts....but the lack of presence of many is OBVIOUS

Oh I didn't realize there was a new thread started. I think that was a good move but it's probably only a matter of time before the pro-breeding crowd finds it.

I don't understand this rush to condemn those of us who are child free by choice. If the Salon article was right, 25% of women alive don't have children. There are a lot of us out here, we are hardly some fringe minority.

There are a lot of us out here, we are hardly some fringe minority.

Yes but it's hard to admit it publicly, even in a forum. It's against the whole structure of the system we live in as we know it. By admitting you don't want to breed and add more consumers to the world you are against everything the system supports. Therefor one can become "anti social" , pathetic and dangerous as the lovely commenter told us.

lily25 wrote:

There are a lot of us out here, we are hardly some fringe minority.

Yes but it's hard to admit it publicly, even in a forum. It's against the whole structure of the system we live in as we know it. By admitting you don't want to breed and add more consumers to the world you are against everything the system supports. Therefor one can become "anti social" , pathetic and dangerous as the lovely commenter told us.

Not wanting to "consume" definitely goes against the grain in that other forum. I remember when the 'curb your consumerism' thread started, about paying down debt and buying less, some on the forum stuck their nose up at it. But the thread was in an unpopular section (money talks) and didn't generate the rabid attention that our NKOHK thread did.

doreenjoy wrote:

lily25 wrote:

There are a lot of us out here, we are hardly some fringe minority.

Yes but it's hard to admit it publicly, even in a forum. It's against the whole structure of the system we live in as we know it. By admitting you don't want to breed and add more consumers to the world you are against everything the system supports. Therefor one can become "anti social" , pathetic and dangerous as the lovely commenter told us.

Not wanting to "consume" definitely goes against the grain in that other forum. I remember when the 'curb your consumerism' thread started, about paying down debt and buying less, some on the forum stuck their nose up at it. But the thread was in an unpopular section (money talks) and didn't generate the rabid attention that our NKOHK thread did.

The curb your consumerism thread should be sticky at the very top of the whole forum. That forum can be addictive and i saw many threads where gals admitted that they want too far and need to get rid of most of their bags. one gal from CL spent her wedding savings on shoes...